Liverpool brought back racism.. Fuck me some of our contributors on here are as blinkered as the beauts venting on the Sun's comments section online so much for the moral high ground of not having anything to do with it post Hillsborough. Suarez was found guilty on balance of probability, not beyond reasonable doubt.
This is acceptable for the FA, but would be insufficient in a court of Law. The report stated that the panel did not think he was a racist, but was guilty of using racist language. It's no surprise that Suarez behaved like that on Saturday - he felt he had total support from all at the club. What surprised me was the lack of obvious response from the higher echelons of the club. Also these days clubs have media officers within earshot every time someone gives an interview.
So enjoy them shredding their reputation, but don't for one minute think we don't have fans or officials capable of being just as idiotic. There is nothing false about my outrage Anthony, I find racism in all forms abhorrent and cannot understand the ignorance of a view which judges based on race. It is disconcerting and rather alarming that you assume?
Suarez was not convicted on just one on one testimony; you are naive to think so. Video footage, changing testimony and other evidence was all taken into account. Part of that was testimony from Comolli, who is fluent in Spanish. Comolli declared that Suarez had told him in Spanish in the dressing room after the match, that he replied to Evra? Suarez has lived in Holland, he is aware of western etiquette.
Last time I checked, I didn? Racism happens in football, as in all walks of life. But the most concerning aspect was Liverpool? Liverpool could have acted with dignity, even if they disagreed with the verdict. They could have quietly appealed, but did not. In choosing to wear t-shirts of support, irrespective of their belief in Suarez? Liverpool in this whole of affair have acted terribly. If an Everton player was accused in this way, I would be ashamed if our team or our player, carried on in this way.
Anthony, At most it seemed Evra was hesitant to shake his hand. But it take two to shake hands, and Suarez just moved on.
And every player shakes hands different. Some will be more outstretched than others, some keep their hand closer in, some go for a hand clasp etc etc. I will concede that potentially Suarez wasn't sure if Evra was offering or not and moved on as its a difficult moment. But Evra did not refuse the hand shake. Either way, bollocks to these hand shakes Lets get back to football. Blackpool next up! Erm, I mean Whitepool, no wait, oh shit, I'm a racist Anthony Jones, you seem have missed the point.
He wasn't describing somebody's race? They were not speaking in a freindly manner so therfore you would assume he was using the words to offend Evra. Suarez admitted he called Evra "little black man" negrito which is partronising and condescending not to mention offensive. I'm well aware of cultural descriptions meaning different things, for example, in the ex-Yugoslavia calling people gypsies is quite common, regardless of their actual cultural heritage.
Polish people call each other Pasy Jews to mock each other regardless of their actual ethnic hertiage. Suarez played for Ajax whose fans are known for being aniti racist and their rivalry with clubs like Feyenoord whose fans reguarly sing racist and anti-semetic taunts to abuse Ajax fans.
Even in the ex-Yugoslavia, fans have stopped singing anti-Islamic and racist chants, so there's no reason why an international footballer should not know using racial slurs is offensive. If a child called a fellow student a little black man, he or she would be expelled from school.
If you used racial slurs in work, you would be sacked and you could face criminal proscuted by the courts. In amateur football, players have been banned from leagues for using racist language Why is Suarez any different? Only recently a coach of a children's football team in Liverpool was banned from managing any other children's football teams for racially abusing somebody during a game. Its very straight forward, look at the FA statement on the original charge, Suarez admitted his guilt, at that point he was guilty as charged and that should have been the end of it with the RS failing to do the right thing which would have been to make a club apology along the lines of cultural differences and that the matter would be dealt with as an internal club matter from that point on, instead they went on the offensive which is probably a fitting word denial job with bollocks like victimisation etc etc.
Gavin, I just cannot bring myself to watch the clip.. Its hard work Mark a mixture of laughing and grinding your teeth. Just heard that a ambulance had to be called to Analfield today when a delivery driver done his back in carrying trays of Humble pies, into the stadium. Or is racism bad but bigotry or anti-Scottish sentiment okay? Anthony, Do not try to stand up for a supposed racist. Not in this country with it's holier than thou leftist biggotry.
Oh and what a lazy French Bastard Saha looked on saurday Eh? Help a Yank out, is it illegal to make racist remarks to another player? By illegal, I mean outside the FA. Does it break a national law? Let's get one thing right. Since this whole debacle, Suarez has now made two apologies. But not once has a apology been directed at Evra. Nate Yes it is. That's why John Terry is facing a trial in July. Whether he is found innocent or guilty, after that trial is completed he is likely to face an FA charge.
Anthony Jones, sometimes to swim against the tide and to offer a case for the defence is admirable and brave. Other times it is foolhardy. Suarez is scum, racist scum and to offer a defence of his racism and his "handshake" is utterly bereft of any moral justification.
Evra may not be a specially worthy victim, but victim he was and to equate his glee at the end of the game with the behaviour of Suarez is ludicrous. I gave my views on another thread about Dalglish but I would like to repeat them here. An inarticulate boorish bully without any sense of what is decent and without an ounce of integrity. I've criticised David Moyes for being soft "Nolan;s not that type of lad" etc.
But,you know what, I'll take that any time over King Kenny and all that he and his club now stand for. I have many issues about Moyes but I have in the passed questioned his integrity. How does that work then Matt? Does Evra have to make a formal complaint to the police or is the Terry case in some way seen as different? Shaun , the first fans to throw bananas at John Barnes were Liverpool fans.
As you say conveniently airbrushed and avoided whenever the old "Everton fans threw Bananas etc" example is trotted out. It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath. I think that it is quite obvious that J Henry as told Dagleish,Suarez and Ayre to make these apologies. The continued support that Suarez received must have led him to also believe that his manager and ceo was right behind him. I would imagine that come the summer all 3 will be looking for a new job. Only because Osman is out injured and Hibbert isn't in the starting Gavin, that YouTube clip has been made Private.
What was in it? No hypocricy there, John? I just don't understand it at all. Jim Knightley has decided that the word "outrage" is equivalent to word "racism".
Quite the master of reason. I knew posting on this thread would lead to at least one clown implying that I hold racist views and I haven't been let down.
Thanks Jim. On Evra's behaviour: he deliberately tried to enflame the situation and clearly carried a vendetta during the match.
The guy tried to pole-axe Suarez early in the game after grabbing hold of Suarez before kick off. He according to The Observer tried to confront Suarez about the lack of handshake, at half time, and then he gloated and incited the crowd whilst prancing about in front of Suarez at the end of the game.
Suarez served an 8 game ban. He has been punished and I am sure he has learned from this. He decided not to shake the hand of a fellow player who he had previous with in this particular game.
Get over it you daft racist ;. Barnes isnt crap Mike, surely he deserves a crack at the shite job when KK eventually and predictably starts wearing underpants on his head and sticks pencils up his nose, does he not? This whole debacle is symptomatic of what ails this once great game of ours.
This short term, money driven imperative, certainly since the onset of the Premier League, has manifest itself in a number of ways recently. This incident, and the so called apologies, no doubt forced on both Suarez and Dalglish by concerned owners and sponsors in order to protect their investment.
The apparenet U turn by Mancini in accepting Tevez back into the fold to help them in the "run in to the title". All of it hypocritical and sickening.
Quite frankly it has left me for one wondering why the hell should I bother! The game should come first and measures will have to be taken to stamp out this despicable behaviour.
It is every fan's interest as there will be no Everton, or any other club for that matter, if the game itself fails. I sincerely hope Everton never spirals down to these depths. I commented earlier in response to a poster highlighting the sportsmanlike behaviour of our players during the Chelsea game in not trying to get players sent off. An attitude that I believe is engrained in this great club.
Let's hope integrity continues and gets the appropriate attention.. Kevin, Andy and Gavin, I do not know you and do not need to. But I guess you are a similar age to me, and your responses would be words that I would use. Many of us have long memories and our neighbours have a list of events at thier door that I am proud that we do not. I love my Everton, it may be flawed but nevertheless In my Manchester local on Saturday night - the 'handshake' clip was shown on the TV above the bar no sound and two 'neutrals', student type lads from darn sarf saw it.
Correct, I thought. On reflection, I'm so glad he didn't accept Evra's hand, leaving his manager in the shit and forcing the club to go over his head. Had Suarez done the right - and proper - thing this would all have been over and the RS version would always have been 'we didn't agree with it, but were big enough to take it'. No they weren't, and their climbdown is a humiliation. Don't know the guy, but Suarez as a player always gives me the impression of being a nasty bastard - no insult to his mother intended.
He won't be altered by these events, although his behaviour may be modified in public. And his boss will be stinging from having been told that although he might be King K, he is not the lord and master of the club that pays his wages. That'll do me for the moment. Noel Lynam So are you denying that Dogleash mumbles or that he is Scottish. As far as I am aware calling someone "Jock" is not racism or bigotry merely a very common term even amongst the Jock's themselves you should try living there and see how they treat and what they call the English if you want to see real bigotry and 'mumbling' is a very fair description of how Dogleash speaks , you could add incoherent to that too.
Its a Kop-out by LFC, but as we all know in these matters it's strictly not as black and white as it may seem. There is unfortunately the old banana skin waiting if you don't respect the colour of someone's skin no matter how much of an arsehole they may be, you can't abuse them verbally, nothing wrong with throwing a few sticks at them then? Evra time I looked at that handshake incident I thought what a wanker not shaking his hand At least he had the guts to stick to his principles even if he is a cheating diving dirty scumbag.
Peter , It's about the context in which it is used and the connotations associated with it. A bit like how calling Moyes a "dithering dour Jock cunt" has connotations different to simply calling him a "dithering dour cunt".
Whether someone in Scotland said something about someone English before or not is irrelevant. I'm just glad apologies have now been issued as they should have once guilt was accepted. The nuances of the word "negro" were deliberated over when this happened initially. It wasn't an accidental cultural mistake, which is why Suarez served a lengthy ban. I can't agree with you on this Anthony. Evra wasn't completly innocent, but nobody in today's society should be subjected to abuse of that nature.
Dave , Evra lodged his complaint with officials from the club, who spoke to the referee. A complaint was never made to the police, therefore the FA dealt with it. In the Terry case, I believe it was a spectator who made the complaint to the police, who then spoke to the players remember Ferdinand said he never heard anything , took camera footage including footage that wasn't broadcast and sent all the info to the CPS, who decided there was a case to answer and a good prospect of getting a conviction.
The FA will likely charge Terry after the court case, irrespective of whether he's found guilty or not guilty. The burden of proof is different - balance of probability, rather than beyond reasonable doubt. The penalties are also different. I think people also missed that in the FA judgement, they said if he was found guilty on another 2 occasions of a similar offence, they would impose a permanent ban. That, I'm guessing, could only apply to England.
As a scouse working down sowf, I remember scousers being referred to as the "niggers from the norf". We thought it was comical and turned it to our advantage, reminding our cockney mates that us niggers from l'pool have giant knobs, beautiful women and great food scouse , also pointing out our great footballing traditions. Perhaps someone could clarify that point.
Peter Barry Quite right. But it does grate with me too. I believe passionately in justice for the 96 but the way justice for the 38 is totally ignored by LFC who have never apologized nor accepted any portion of the responsibility for the Heysel tragedy is a travesty. The blaming of everybody and everything else but themselves including the stadium is nauseating.
Hillsborough was a terrible accident aided and abetted by organisational incompetence for which somebody should have paid heavily. Heysel, on the other hand, was the result of grotesque, unadulterated thuggery for which the real culprits have never paid.
This seems to have been entirely forgotten by the media too, who continue to paint a picture of the lovable Kopites as the best supporters in the land. Most of the rest were 'remote' supporters, living for the most part in other parts of the UK but nevertheless with tickets issued by the club. Yet there is still this persistent myth that the hardcore instigators were NF members from the South East. Every time an issue arises that reignites the Hillsborough debate I hope in vain for just a passing reference from LFC of the need for justice for the dead of Heysel too.
But it never comes. I thought it might after the near and repeat disaster of Athens, but it didn't and it never will. As a black man who played through the s and s, a time when racial abuse was relatively commonplace, when I see something like this it hits me like a slap in the face. You think the game has gone past this stage but there is still a battle to be won.
The focus for the future has to be on education. When I was playing, if something like this would have happened nobody would have done anything about it. But what was considered acceptable then is not accepted now. Viv Anderson played for Arsenal from and in became the first black player to be capped by England.
It features in a splash of Liverpool red on the back cover of his new book, The Uncomfortable Truth about Racism , as well as in more sombre black-and-white on the inside pages. Barnes moves far deeper than that snapshot of racism in football to discuss slavery, colonialism and how race remains such a problematic issue at the heart of contemporary society.
He does not even mention the incident in the book and now, back in Liverpool, he explains why it was remembered by so many people who had not lived his life. Because it was Liverpool versus Everton in I had been playing [professional] football in England since when bananas were thrown on the field every day. But Liverpool against Everton made it, all of a sudden, big news. Rather than being a transformative moment, the way in which Barnes back-heeled a banana off the pitch was his routine response to a depressingly familiar occurrence.
But Barnes himself, a brilliant footballer who is now an admirably thoughtful man willing to ask searching questions about race and society, was never depressed by the absurd prejudice of the banana-throwers.
Cyrille Regis [the striker who played for West Brom and other clubs from to ] said he could open a greengrocers with all the bananas that came on the field. It really meant nothing to me at all. Barnes mentions that game when I ask him if he can pinpoint the worst moment of racial abuse in his career. Some National Front supporters were on the plane with us when we flew to Rio. One of them was sitting just behind us because we were on a commercial flight. These supporters were funded by the NF to follow England.
What can be done? We have to look at it holistically and as a whole and say let us tackle racism or discrimination in life. Then you can look to get rid of it in football. The only way you can do that is first to deconstruct the idea of where racism came from.
Are the punishments out there enough of a deterrent? Punishments aren't a deterrent for you to change your perception of black people or women or homosexuals. All you have to do is keep your mouth shut.
It is the answer if you just don't want to hear it and I think that is what football and society would be happy with. As long as we don't hear or see it then that is OK. What about when you were a manager? If I'm doing well and winning matches I will get no abuse. They will love me but as soon as I start to lose matches, not only won't they not like me, they will look at something which they consider to be negative to focus on that.
That's no different from anybody else in any industry. If you are black then you have to be better than your white counterpart to be equal. That's life. Listen to nocturnal mixtapes specially curated from his music collection. Get latest scores and headlines sent straight to your phone, sign-up to our newsletter and learn where to find us on online.
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